The Rentish Podcast

My First Property w/ Real Estate Investor John Blatchford

• Zach and Patrick • Season 1 • Episode 18

Share episode

In Episode 18 of The Rent-ish Podcast, Zach and Patrick welcome Cincinnati real estate investor and developer John Blatchford to discuss the art of historic building restoration and property transformation. As the founder of Kunst and Cohorts, John has mastered the use of tax incentives and creative financing to turn neglected spaces into vibrant, modern homes. Tune in to hear John’s inspiring journey, discover actionable tips for leveraging tax incentives, and learn how thoughtful restoration can unlock incredible value in real estate. Whether you’re curious about property transformation or looking to start your own restoration project, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss!

Got questions, hot takes, or real estate horror stories of your own? Email us at questions@therentishpod.com—you might just make the next episode. 

Check Innago at https://innago.com/podcast/ to learn more. 

Sponsors:

Innago is a free, online property management software designed for landlords, particularly those managing small to medium-sized portfolios. It offers a range of features to simplify tasks like rent collection, lease management, maintenance requests, and tenant screening.

Ledgre is an All-in-One Accounting Software Built for Rentals. Organize property transactions, track expenses, and automate rental accounting with simple software focused on your industry.

Cohorts where serious real estate leaders level up. Join a curated peer group of founders, principals, and GPs who meet monthly in small, high-value circles. No fluff—just real insights, real accountability, and direct access to people who’ve done it before.

Follow us on Instagram

SPEAKER_00:

What's going on, everyone? I'm Zach, and I'm here with my co-host, Patrick. What up? And we are your hosts for The Rentish Podcast, a podcast that's kind of about rental properties and hosted by two guys that work in the real estate industry and sort of know what they're talking about. But mostly don't. That's right, Patrick. Mostly we don't, which is why you're going to have fun listening to us talk to experts. Hints, hints. Emphasis on the expert there. And learning with us or laughing along at how little we know. Patrick, how's your day going, buddy? It's good.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm two cups of coffee in today.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, really? Is that a normal? No, no. Two cups, a little extra? You needed that boost? I needed the boost. I needed to be on my best behavior with the expert in town. I, you know, wanted to make sure energy levels were high. Yeah, I got a haircut just for the occasion. I was like, I can't be in a room with such a professional without having like a barber do something for me. So, yeah. Rent-ish. Before we dive into it, because we're joined by a very special guest, very excited to introduce him to the show. Remember, follow The Rentish on social media. We're at The Rentish Pod on Instagram. You can check us out there. Please follow us. Check us out there. You can go to any podcast service that you use, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and search for The Rentish Pod, and you're going to find our show there. Hit follow, subscribe, maybe give us a rating or two or three or comment. Anything to make producing me say happy. He's smiling. He's smiling very big. What? Are we on YouTube? That's a question for Producer Moussey. He's shaking his head no. So we are not on YouTube. Okay. But maybe email questions at therentishpod.com if you would like us to go to YouTube. We need to start filming these maybe. Or, well, we could just put up the sound, I think. I'm okay with not filming.

SPEAKER_01:

You

SPEAKER_00:

don't want to be on camera? I don't

SPEAKER_01:

need people to be seeing me when I'm zoning off into space during our

SPEAKER_00:

podcast episodes. When I'm reading all of the important articles and you're just sitting there like stone cold, staring at the window. All right, well, that's enough jibber jabber. We're joined by a special guest, so we've got to actually get into it because we're going to have a lot to talk about today. In this segment, we're going to talk about real estate professionals. That's right, my first property. But before he built his impressive portfolio, he had to start somewhere. Today, we're diving into John's very first property investment, what he learned, the challenges he faced, and how that first purchase shaped his real estate career. John, welcome to the show. What's up? Oh, you got a round of applause. We could add that

SPEAKER_01:

in

SPEAKER_00:

post. Thank you. It's good to have you, man. Hey,

SPEAKER_01:

good to be here. Thanks for having

SPEAKER_00:

me, guys. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to get a lot of your insight. I think that certain colleagues of ours have talked up your tome of knowledge. knowledge in terms of the world of real estate.

SPEAKER_01:

Tome. Good word. Thank

SPEAKER_00:

you. I think we're excited to dive deep into your journey, your history, your story. Was there anything I missed in your intro blurb that you want to share with the world about you and who you are? No, that's basically it. That's who you are. We captured you in a paragraph. I got nothing else. All right, everyone. That's the end of the show. John, you have a unique approach to real estate. I think that's the least that could be said about it. Focusing on historic buildings and utilizing tax incentives. Was that always your plan or did your first property purchase kind of shape that direction that what your career went?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So the first building we ultimately bought in 2014 and probably started working on in 2013. And I was working in downtown Cincinnati for a technology company, actually software company. And it was manufacturing software. So we had installations and deployments like all around the which was really awesome. Went to Chile and Mexico and trained in Germany and all this cool stuff. But yeah, I always liked buildings. I liked real estate without really knowing what that meant. Historic preservation, interior design, all the kind of aspects of real estate that are interesting. Yeah, I was kind of interested in, I would say, my whole life. And then a very cheap property became available in Over the Rhine, where we are right now. So yeah, it was$5,000 in 2014. What? Wait, wait, what? 5,000? 5-0-0? Yeah, so that's, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

This is why we need to record for YouTube, because when he said that, I saw both of your eyes expand to about this big. Wait, what was the

SPEAKER_01:

property? So it's 1667 Hamer Street. It's in Over the Rhine near Findlay Market. It was a rough area then, and now it's been 10 years, and it's still a pretty rough area, although it's changing now. So yeah, it was really cheap, and it was in really bad shape. You know, just water coming through the ceiling and needed a lot of masonry repair, and so it needed a lot. you know, it was 5,000 to buy and ended up being, you know,$250,000 to renovate it. So that's, that's always the catch. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Where did the bolt, where did the boldness come from of thinking that you were standing on that precipice and like, I can accomplish this project?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. More, uh, I'd say willful stupidity or lack of knowledge. You know, I had a salary at the time, had a little money saved, but even, even just do this first project, need to raise some money. Um, because we needed like$60,000 of cash, you know, to do the project. Uh, and we got a loan you know from a bank for the rest of it but yeah really just kind of rolling into it and I would say like at the beginning it was a lot more missionary you know I've thought a lot about like missionary versus mercenary and I think smart people go in the other direction they start very mercenary make a ton of money you know do whatever I have to do get the big job do that path and then you know later you can kind of move towards something you are more interested in and I did the missionary first like this is just a cool old building I want to renovate it I think people should live here and put some random numbers in Excel and maybe at work, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. The way that he

SPEAKER_01:

speaks so

SPEAKER_00:

eloquently about it, it's like, man, it's really that easy. Yeah. Isn't that easy? Put some random

SPEAKER_01:

numbers in Excel and make it work out. Definitely not easy to start, you know, and then, you know, you learn the lessons over time of like, okay, I probably could have done that a smarter way, but. Did you know anything about like the renovation aspects of it before you purchased the property? Did you just like purchase it and like, all right, we'll figure out the rest later? Yeah, I didn't know anything. I, friends of mine were general contractors and so the original idea was is we would be partners on the project. And so they would like discount their services, kind of help me through it. And then they would get some ownership, which, you know, which they did. So that was the original idea. And then really like a year into it, I had the grand idea that I didn't need to have a job like this would be my job. I'll start my company. So in 2015, did that basically quit my job, went full time into this and became, you know, became a general contractor, then kind of just figured out the construction as we went.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. How did you decide that it was? I mean, it sounds like it kind of just fell in You were motivated. You saw the property. You saw the area. You thought you had a vision for it, but what motivated you to do it at that specific time? When did you decide that it was the right time to get into it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it was... Getting more and more interested in the area, I would say, you know, with Ryan. I moved down in 2012. So, you know, lived pretty close to the building, was working downtown. So just kind of in the area. And I'm still sort of motivated in that way, which is like if you're on a street corner and it just has good energy and there's a market over there and like a coffee shop just opened up and then there's a vacant building, you're just kind of like, well, this should be someone should live here. Like certainly somebody would pay to live here, you know, it shouldn't be vacant or it shouldn't be like underutilized. So, you know, I think you kind of have a sense for like areas that should be developed and it clearly really was like the right time and right place. I mean, to have started in Over the Rhine in 2012 and 13, just like the rise it's had in the last 10 years. So yeah, it was just really the right time and place, and obviously the price was right. You know, I could not have raised$500,000, but I could raise$60,000, you know, and the building was available, and near where I lived, you know, just kind of a confluence of factors. You know, and then the leap to really jump full time and quit my job, that was just like, I think I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur and own my own company, and that was, you know, kind of pursuing that as like a 26 year old and I wouldn't necessarily recommend that like for my son or anyone else in the world it's like you know maybe maybe do it on the side for a little longer maybe save up a little more money maybe learn some lessons and then you know jump but you know that's that's what I

SPEAKER_00:

did it's a success story I mean you made the risk and it seemed to have paid off for you so

SPEAKER_01:

yeah no it always it just takes time especially in real estate where it's a lot of money you know that project took two years to really develop and it was a small building and the fastest project will take two to three years so It takes a long time to kind of learn the lessons. But yeah, the hope is after, you know, a lifetime certainly, but hopefully shorter than that. You've learned a lot and built like a nice business.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Were there any other unexpected challenges in that first, like besides the, you know, we mentioned like the, the construction that you had to do and getting like all of that taken care of. But were there any other challenges where you weren't anticipating like, oh crap, now I have to deal with this?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think I was not prepared for a lot of the structural repair needed. You know, we got close to the end and a building inspector came and was like, yeah, that brick wall is jacked. You gotta like fix that. So within the last, like, I don't know, two months of the building was like an additional$7,000. She's like, okay, hopefully. And yeah, I think in general, that's sort of, it's like pretty by Like if you have the money to finish the building, people can live there and pay rent and it works out. But if you don't, if you're short by$500, like you can't finish it and people can't live there, you know? So like the budgeting and scoping of like the work you need to do, you know, that's been a major lesson. But yeah, the masonry was a big one. You know, we had to evict a lot of animals, a lot of raccoons, you know, sorry

SPEAKER_00:

to them. You put in a 30 day notice on the raccoon store.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't want to be the gentrifier, but if the pigeons aren't paying rent, you You gotta kick them out.

SPEAKER_00:

Patrick,

SPEAKER_01:

you got anything? So as far as like, how did you first tackle like renovated in that sort of way? Like how did you first find the contractors and the people who needed to get the job done and know all of the different steps involved? Yeah. So, you know, my general contractor friends, they were really helpful. And I would say one good thing in real estate is like, there are like everyone you're hiring theoretically is like a skilled person that knows what to do. And so you're like, you need to know who to contact. You need to know like what the next steps are. like you know does insulation happen before drywall you know like there are real considerations of like what are the steps yeah but then once you know you need like an electrician it's like there are you know 20 of those and they know what to do and their license and you know so yeah my general contractor friends were good of like who to contact what are the next steps and then fortunately you kind of lean on all the all the contractors to do their work and then it all gets inspected you know like by the city and stuff and so they're going to come along and tell you like yeah you need to you need to have an automatic door closer on your doors so a fire doesn't spread and you're like i didn't know that was a thing yeah right but you know like they're that's what the building department does are the inspectors um so it's good in that way like there's a lot of checks and balances and you know there's people that you can kind of lean on how many units is the is the building after you completed it yeah so end up being three units so so kind of the total project was buy for five thousand uh thought it would cost 210 and it ended up costing like$250. So that's really cheap, like$80,000 basically total investment per unit. And then renting them out as nice one-bedroom apartments, including to friends of ours that lived there for years, which was great. Cool. And this was what year again? Remind me. So yeah, really kind of started out in 2013, bought it in 2014, was legally occupiable, complete in 2016. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So we're coming up, but yeah, so 10 years and I, so I, Preliminarily on the verge of house hunting where we've talked about this, Patrick and I are here doing this podcast to kind of learn from professionals like you about the home buying experience, about renovations, about important things that you don't think about when you're getting into real estate for the very first time. And just like context for like that similar area in Cincinnati now to purchase a property, what would you say is like the average cost of a property of the similar vibe that you have now in the Findlay Market area?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, that exact building, we finished it for$250,000 total investment. We sold it a few years after that for like$350,000. And it's probably worth like$400,000 now. And that's a three unit. And that's like that specific street, which probably still is one of the worst streets in Over the Rhine. But, you know, two streets over on Findlay Market, You know, that same building is probably 600,000. That same building at Washington Park is probably, you know, a million dollars.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, the other day, after the last episode of the pod, we were talking about like Mount Adams and he lived in a Mount Adams apartment that was like$700. And I just went home that night and looked at Zillow at what like the average cost of a place to buy is in Mount Adams right now. It's like over a million, right? Over a million. It's like 1.5. It's places that are like$3 million up there. I'm like, what are we doing in this mountain? That's awesome. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

it's gotten wild. I mean, that's true. Yeah, and over the line too, there's houses for sale now for$2 million, which is pretty wild. Like a single family house. Yeah, poof.

SPEAKER_00:

Crazy. So talking about like financing, like are there like any tips or insight for people that are looking to maybe get into exactly what you're doing and like finding these kind of properties and renovating them? Were there any like Any special, like, any specialty loans that you were able to get approved for? Like, any tips or tricks or, like, maybe, like, resources that people can use to, like, learn more about this stuff?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would say anybody kind of getting started in real estate or trying to buy property, you know, their first, let's say, you know, I think having a salary is obviously a big bonus. That may be obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me, clearly. And not just that you have, you know, regular income coming in, which is great, but a lender is going to loan to you because you're going to get paid every two weeks or every month or whatever, and, you know, that gives them confidence that they can give you a loan so that's like kind of underappreciated but like a bank really cares of course like their number one thing is that can you repay the loan and you have a salary you have regular income you have some savings you know that gives them a lot of confidence and you have to personally guarantee these things in most cases which is like if the building can't pay the loan like you personally have to pay it

SPEAKER_03:

okay

SPEAKER_01:

um and so again if you have a salary if you have savings like that's fine but if you don't then you know that could ruin your life okay so yeah it sounds like it so yeah so that's one one, and then there are... I think throughout the country, but certainly in Cincinnati, a lot of tax incentives. All these cities, small towns, they want you to develop properties. They don't want them to be vacant. So there's property tax breaks you can get, which we've gotten on all of our buildings. There's these historic tax credits at the state and federal level, which will help you repair and restore a historic building, a program that's been around since the 70s and applies throughout the entire country. And then there's a thing called Opportunity Zones, which have been around since, I think, 2019. you know, to help you gain investors into the property because they can get tax breaks as well. So that's like another element. You know, you have your own personal wealth. You have a loan you can get from a bank, which is like, you know, quite possible for anybody, I would say. And then you have like tax incentives, which can also help the project. So that's like the typical sort of, you know, you said like capital stack. Okay. Even for like your first property.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And would you recommend, I mean, like, how did you find those resources at the time when you were like looking... when you were looking into it, did you have like trusted professionals that you went to and said like, give me all this information or was it mostly just self research online?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, kind of both. I mean, someone told me about, for example, the historic tax credits and I reached out to a consultant. I was like, hey, where are these tax credits? How do they work? And, you know, I think he was being kind. He just sent me like the application. Like, this is what it looks like. And I was like, oh, I could just do that. Gotcha. So then, you know, so then I just did the historic tax credit application. But yeah, again, I think with like with any of this, like there are just consultants, there's people out there that want to help you. Like every lender, like their whole business is giving out loans. And so they'll educate you. They'll tell you how it works. You know, what are interest rates? What are the terms? So a lot of these people are really incentivized to help you and help you potentially for free, including like a general contractor. They want to win your business. It's like, what is the cost to build? So yeah, I think, you know, people want to be helpful. And it's a pretty, I think like a fairly friendly industry where, you know, people want to help each other out.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I love his optimism,

SPEAKER_00:

Patrick. He says it's a friendly industry.

SPEAKER_01:

At that level it is. I think when you get into the New York City commercial real estate, that's the most brutal thing on earth.

SPEAKER_00:

Would that be your vote? That would be the worst? You wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole? No way. You

SPEAKER_01:

have to be so ungodly wealthy and so risk-taking. It's just like on a different

SPEAKER_00:

planet. Last week we talked about, or one of the episodes, previous episodes, we talked about the Leaning Tower of New York, which you can go listen to. I think we may have gotten that article from you. Yeah, yeah. Would you invest in that property?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's, no. And, you know, the thing is, like, kind of what I was talking about earlier is, like, construction, like, there is, it's just a linear process. Right. And it's kind of been the same for a long time. Like, all right, you do the plumbing and then, you know, do the electric. And so, like, you can figure those projects out, in that case, like the Leaning Tower, but that one is like a major structural issue probably under the ground is like there's not many ways you

SPEAKER_00:

can

SPEAKER_01:

fix that

SPEAKER_00:

yeah should we tell so our theory on that episode this is good so this is where we actually get fact-checked where we just come in here and just say our nonsense for 30 minutes every single week we were posed with the question what do we do with this building like what would we do yeah and there's like the the consultant like producing was saying like well what if you like paid to finish it and then you just had some kind of a disclaimer to the people that are living there saying this is the structural, situation here, they tested it or whatever, or do you bulldoze and just start over again? What do you predict a situation like that would go through?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think there's a few things. One is, okay, it's not quite level and you're trying to sell a, say,$10 million condo. They don't want to live on an unlevel floor. But I think to your point, all right, finish the building, give people a discount, at least just get it done, try to break even or lose a bit of money. So I think that is an option. But I think an issue there is everything gets messed up. The elevators are messed up. The Oh God, I didn't even think about that. You know, it's like, we encourage our tenants to

SPEAKER_00:

take the

SPEAKER_01:

stairs. It's like, it's like a Parisian walk-up building, except it's 80 stories, you know? So there's that. So I think there are like real issues with it being not quite level, but yeah, the other thing is like potentially you try to fix that. And I talked to a guy that I think was consulting on it and was going to work on it. And they're like, potentially you try to like jack it up from underground. Like, literally. Oh, wow. Really? Interesting. Yeah, which we have done. That happens a lot with historic buildings. But those are, like, you know, a four-story building. This is, you know, this is, like, a totally different world. So maybe there's, like, some engineering fix that you could do. But, yeah, I would assume if, like, if all the mechanical systems work, the elevator work, and it's just, like, slightly out of level and you just could tell the condo owners, like, that seems like the only way. Because otherwise, yeah, you just have to demolish it.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you ever run into a situation? I don't want to suck all the oxygen out of the room. We keep asking questions. No, I'm intrigued. You're intrigued. Has there ever been a project that got to that point where it was like a project where it was like... I'm over in over my head. This isn't going to end up the way that I think it's going to end up. And we just got to abandon ship. Like did that ever has ever happened to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think all the buildings we've worked on are pretty serious, like repairs, you know, structural work, maybe even like to the foundation, but certainly all like the brick walls and the joists and the floors, like everything needs to be either fixed or totally replaced. Okay. And so, yeah, sometimes you kind of get into it and it's, you know, it's more than you had bargained for one building that had a partial fire before we bought it and you're like wow this you know it's going to take a lot more work than we need so but it kind of cuts both ways where it was built in the 1880s by hand you know there was no auto cat there's no like drafting software there was no mechanical tools there were no like lifts you know all the things we have now power tools that make it a lot easier like they didn't have that and they could still figure it out they built a brick wall they built joyce they you know like it's like certainly we can figure it out now and so that's what i try to do is like get back to the basic elemental level you're like oh you just have to take the bricks down and then fix it and then build them back up. It's like, oh yeah, you can do that. There's a price, but it's all solvable. But yeah, the main thing is you just... want to know that cost up front because like the biggest risk is you know and as the numbers grow like I said with the first building thought it would be 210 it was 250 so$40,000 is not like the end of the world in this world but you know once you get to like a$3 million building if it goes over by 10% you're like that's$300,000 so it's like you know you need to be able to fill that gap you need to you know hopefully you know that up front so yeah I think it's more just like knowing the scopes of work knowing how bad it is You know, being prepared for all of that up front and just getting to like a real cost. Somebody that's going to actually like build it for that cost.

SPEAKER_00:

Got it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I appreciate your boldness. I got to say, I mean, it's something a lot of our listeners, I'm sure our listeners are going to write into the questions of the Rentish pod if you also appreciate John's boldness. You got anything for me, Pat?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, just like one quick question. This is always something I'm interested in. in is when you bought this first building were you still like yourself were you still renting or did you have your own place that you like you lived in that you owned interestingly enough uh i have never owned my primary residence so all the buildings that you own are more like investment properties or yeah i've always rented i've been renting yeah my whole life i've never owned a place we did live in one of the buildings we renovated so you know i technically owned 18 of that or whatever but yeah never yeah i've never owned my house Interesting. Yeah. It's like that's kind of like when we talked to Levi a few weeks ago or whatever. He still rents as well, but he obviously owns a whole portfolio. Yeah. I think like in this business, like you have a different perspective of like, most people are going to, I think should buy a home because it's like, we'll make their lives better. Just happier. You can, you can add the deck, you can do the thing, you can add the bathroom, you can paint the walls, you know, like that's the reason mainly I think to buy a house. If you want it to be an investment, then like people should be renting it, you know? So maybe that's a duplex where you live in one or the other, or you have, you know, like an 80, like a, you know, accessory unit that you can rent out. Then it's like, makes it more of an investment, but. Cause you get that passive income as, as opposed to. Yeah. Like somebody's paying you Cause otherwise like, okay, sure. If you live there, like, yes, you're paying down the loan. Like that can be a good investment, but also like when the roof leaks, like you gotta, you know, you gotta fix that in the boiler and you know, there's like a lot of maintenance and cost of owning a house. Yeah. I think if you're looking to invest in real estate, it's better if it's not where you live. Gotcha. That's definitely an interesting perspective. Yeah. Like truly as an investment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But yeah. If you had to boil it down to one big piece of advice that you would give to anyone looking for that first time investment property.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I think. Do you have one? Just get started and do it with an amount that's not going to kill you. There's plenty of ways to buy. You don't need to do the$250,000 renovation. You can buy something that needs$20,000, just a nice new kitchen. I think you can get started for a relatively small amount of money and just figure it out. Do the kitchen, do the bath. What's it like to hire a plumber? What's it like to hire a small contractor? What's it like to have a loan and get the money from the bank? So yeah, you start in that and then if that's interesting and works and then maybe you have a tenant and okay managing a tenant right is like can i do that do i hate it right oh they call me at you know 10 p.m i gotta fix this thing like some people love that and some people that's like you know the worst thing on earth so patrick imagine you get

SPEAKER_00:

a

SPEAKER_01:

tenant and then they're

SPEAKER_00:

calling you at like 7 a.m

SPEAKER_01:

yeah 10 p.m i can do that any day 7 a.m forget about

SPEAKER_00:

it yeah terminated

SPEAKER_01:

you are evicted but you know that is the tricky thing with renting you know with managing a rental property. It's like not everything is that urgent, but some things really are. I mean, that first building, for whatever reason, the furnace kept going out. And it was like two of our very good friends living in this apartment. And so in the winter, the furnace would just give out and it had to be just like reset. But that could be at 10 p.m. It could be at 6 a.m. And like you can't let that go.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like you can't let that go for two hours. Like they'll be freezing, you know. Yeah. So yeah, that's part of it too. It's like, okay, do you like managing, managing apartments? And then you figure out systems there. Like maybe you hire a property manager, maybe you hire a maintenance person, whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, once you figure it out with one, like,

SPEAKER_00:

you know, then you can kind of keep going from there if you want. That seems to be very similar to what Levi said when we, when we asked the same question. So it seems like that's what we, you know, you got to give it a shot and you figure it out along the way. You know, you just learn a lot by the act of doing right. Yeah, I think so. So

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. Even a single family house, like rent, rent where you live and then buy a single family house and rent that out. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, there's lots of different ways to try to do it, but

SPEAKER_00:

cool. Is there anything you would have done differently on that very first property? You turn back time and you jump through the, the Avengers time portal and you're like, all right, I'm going to change this one thing about what I did on this investment. What was, is there anything, or do you feel like you pretty much aced it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, we got lucky with the timing and the cost, you know, that's like, that's certainly one way to, you know, make your own luck is like, we just bought it for so cheap and at a good time and a good location. Like we made a good amount of money on it, but mostly because of that.

SPEAKER_02:

So

SPEAKER_01:

yeah, I think one thing is just a better budget. I think that's always the game. especially because the thing that people are going to pay for living in an apartment is like the finishes. Like that's kind of all they care about, but that's like the last thing you're doing. So if you're running out of money or you're like running out of patients, you could like cheap out in the finishes and that'll just kill you. You know, we did that. And I think the one thing I regret like physically at the building is on the first floor unit. Like by the time we were done, I was like, we just don't have any more money. And so we just put in like Home Depot cabinets and stuff, you know? So on like a$250,000 renovation, we might've saved, you know,$1,500 on that final part, which like clearly does not make sense. So yeah, so like a good budget so that you can spend the money at the end when you... I've never thought about that. Like the finishes is kind of... It's like the first thing that catches people's eyes in an apartment. Yeah, it's like all you care about is a nice shower, a nice kitchen, nice countertops. Like that's really almost all that someone cares about renting it. And that could change the rent from$1,200 to$1,500, which is a big deal. But yeah, as the person like developing it, you're like, oh God, more money. But that's... like when you don't want to cheap out. So.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Okay. Patrick, do you have any more questions before I jump to a couple of like funsies? No, I'm, I'm good. Okay. So I got to ask dream Cincy property to buy. So like, Money's no object. Is there a historic building in Cincinnati or a place or a neighborhood maybe where you see a lot of places where you're just like, I would love to get into this investment, just haven't done it yet?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, it's really good. Yeah, a few probably favorite buildings. The Gwynn Building, which is downtown. It's being developed now. I think it's like the family of Walmart money. Okay. Yeah, it's currently being renovated. They're doing a high-end hotel, but that's probably my favorite building in Cincinnati. What's it called again? The

SPEAKER_00:

Gwynn Building. G-W-Y-N-N-E building.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_00:

125,000 square foot, 13 story Gwynn building completed in 1913, designed by Ernest Flagg, cool name, who designed the Singer Building in New York and the Corcoran Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a cool building. It's sick. It has these massive cast iron windows. I think I talked to somebody that was working on that renovation. I think each window is like seven grand or something. Holy cow. Yeah. Now it's going to be a hotel. It was offices, like low occupancy. and see offices, but they're renovating it, I think, man, to a boutique hotel.

SPEAKER_00:

Huh. From 1935 until 1956, the office building housed the headquarters of Procter& Gamble. Some Cincinnati trivia for you there. The P&G's like the Cincinnati company. Oh, yeah. It's like every building. It's like

SPEAKER_01:

for some period of time, P&G was there. For a period of time. Okay. Yeah, so that's definitely one of my favorites. You know, I think as far as areas, you know, over the line, there's still a little bit left to do, but there's some crazy stats there of like in the year 2000 or maybe late 90s, there was like 3,000 vacant buildings. And I think now there's like 50. So like over the line. 50? Yeah. Like 5-0. In over the line. So like, you know, most of them have now been redeveloped. Okay. So there's not much opportunity left there. But, you know, I think Northern Kentucky, I think as you go into the hillside, Yeah, I think I'm, like, most bullish on the area between over the Rhine and, like, where the University of Cincinnati is.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Like, all the stuff that's, like, on the hill going up into Cleveland. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

like, Mount Auburn is really, you know, kind of underdeveloped. I mean, just that whole area, and you're so close to downtown. And there's a lot of energy now, like, coming to the West End with, you know, FC Cincinnati, and they're going to invest, you know, a billion dollars into real estate there. Yeah, yeah. There'll be excitement there, but it's also slow. Okay. I think that's, like... the

SPEAKER_00:

other

SPEAKER_01:

part

SPEAKER_00:

of this whole business. I'm going to throw this one out there. Just curious. One of my favorite cool looking buildings in Cincinnati that I always, you know, when people talk about like buying historic properties and like renovating them is the Imperial Theater.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. I would love nothing more than to see that like restored and like become like a beautiful art house cinema. It'd be awesome. The Mohawk one? I think so. I don't know the exact street, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a great building.

SPEAKER_00:

I pass it every day when I drive home. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

they're trying. They're working on it. But yeah, it all just takes so long.

SPEAKER_00:

Takes so long. A lot of money. Okay. Well, my last question that I've got here before we kind of wrap up. Patrick and I are big movie fans. We routinely talk about movies here on this podcast. In fact, we do segments where we talk about famous buildings from movies or whatever. So my question for you is simple, and I think we should probably start asking all of our guests. What's your favorite movie and why?

SPEAKER_03:

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00:

It doesn't have to be like... you know, one favorite, they have Letterboxd asks the four favorites or whatever. If you have one that you're like, this just jumps to mind.

SPEAKER_01:

I really like Minority Report. Okay. Huh. I think that's, yeah, I don't even really love Tom Cruise. I think he's, you know, he's good, obviously. That Tom Cruise guy is okay. He's pretty good. I think he's gonna have a good career. Yeah. But no, I like Minority Report. I like the original Gladiator a lot. Like, that still sticks with me from when I originally saw it in, like, whatever that was, 90-something. Um... Yeah, I'm trying to think of movies I've seen. I've never heard anyone say Minority Report is their favorite. I respect that. It's up there. And it's funny because when I think of favorite movie, I think I'm still just like, I remember the movies I saw pretty young. Yeah, right. Those stick in my brain. I think certainly I've seen a better movie in the last five years. But that's where my mind goes to. Stuff I saw when I was 15 or whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. No, that's awesome. Unique pick. Yeah. And I appreciate the Gladiator pick.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Man, when Gladiator 2 was coming out in theaters, I just rewatched the first one and I was just like, that's one of those movies that's just awesome. It's awesome. Just struck by the power of film. The opening scene is just like

SPEAKER_01:

insane. So, so good. Energy from front to back.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. All right. Well, John, it's been a pleasure to talk. Holy cow. Yeah, that was great until the last moment.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you ruined the whole

SPEAKER_00:

episode. That's what we do the whole thing now. Restart it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to it. No, it's been a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you for coming and hanging with Patrick and I and letting us bring a little K into your calm, you know, very professional demeanor. And I think it went really well. And it was very insightful learning about renovating old buildings and like getting into real estate investing with historic buildings. So we wish you luck. We can't wait to have you back on the podcast sometime soon. In the meantime, though, where can listeners follow you and learn more about all your projects and stuff?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, my company is Kunst. You know, we do historic renovations and then mostly I would say social media, Twitter, X and LinkedIn. It's John J. Blatchford. So that's where I'm at. Okay, awesome. Yeah, there's a website, kunz.us, but there's not much. I mean, it just shows our projects. So I'm really more active like X and LinkedIn. Can you spell that just for the... oh yeah so our website is kunst.us

SPEAKER_00:

kunst.us cool awesome okay awesome and that's another episode of the rentish in the books remember to follow us on social media at the rentish pod on instagram you can also just like us subscribe and hit the ring a ding bell for all those notifications for all the future episodes i was trying to break me say uh and uh yeah give us a rating or a review and email questions at therentishpod.com if you have any feedback or any kind of topic suggestions that you want to float our way. We'd love to talk about it with you. I've been Zach. That's been Patrick. And we'll see you guys next time. And that's been John. And that's been John. And we'll see you guys next

SPEAKER_02:

week.